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| Gas water heater timer? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2007 12:25 pm |
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1st Post |
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mduco Member 
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I searched the site and when asked about timers you immeadiatley began discussing Electric water heater timers and never went back to discussing gas options? Does anyone make one and if so who?
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21st, 2007 05:40 pm |
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2nd Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: There used to be a timer called "Quarterback" or something similar. It was a control that mounted directly to the gas valve and adjusted it up and down daily. The problem I found using them is the gas valves are not made to be used so much and I got small gas leaks from worn out seals. Most of the same benefit can be had by insulating the tank and piping very well. That way there is nothing to break  A study was done years ago to measure benefits of setback on electric heaters and found minimal savings with daily setback. I know it would be different with gas heaters, but any conservation efforts must be weighed against safety. Water temperature and Legionnaires disease is another example. Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17th, 2009 08:58 pm |
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3rd Post |
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American Pacific Member
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You are interested in a Gas Water Heater Timer. Good for you. We have a Patent Pending, and we hope to have one on the market within 90 days. In response to Larry's evaluation of a gas water heater timer; Water heater gas valves are made to turn on and off. The manufacturer even put a vacation setting on your gas valve to make it easier. If there was a liability the manufacturer would have something in it's manual concerning the subject. As far as Legionnaire's, there are thousands of secondary homeowners around the world who turn their water heaters off and leave the water in the tank for long periods. I don't believe this is an issue. We have just set up a Web Page. You won't find it yet with your search engine. However, if you use your address bar at the upper right of your screen and type in: gaswaterheatertimer.com then press enter, you should get our new Web Page. There are a few people who have some negative ideas on the subject of a gas water heater timer. There is strong evidence by the Department of Energy and many tankless water heater manufacturers about "standby heat loss". It is our intention to reduce standby heat loss to reduce energy consumption as well as reduce carbon dioxide emissions. Hope this helps! gaswaterheatertimer@dishmail.net
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18th, 2009 01:10 am |
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4th Post |
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Ej Member 
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If you really want to put a timer on your gas water heater then I suggest you do what commercial fire systems have been doing for decades and have proven to last longer than the life of the appliance. Place a properly rated solenoid between the thermostat and the burner such as this one (call to confirm natural gas applicable) http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2HTY6 Then wire a 110 volt power cord to the coil of the solenoid and plug it into a timer such as you would use for xmas lights. http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=936417&Ntt=936417&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=112897&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber Total cost would be about 150.00-160.00 . Just make sure the solenoid is low pressure rated. No need for fancy gizmos since the technology for desired results has been already proven and around for ever. Last edited on Sat Jul 18th, 2009 01:13 am by Ej |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18th, 2009 01:29 am |
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5th Post |
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American Pacific Member
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Yes, a solenoid valve is an option. You would then be voiding any manufacture warranty on the water heater. Not a good idea. The "Gas Water Heater Timer" is user friendly and can be installed in less than 15 minutes by the average homeowner. This is not a fancy gizmo. It is totally user friendly.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18th, 2009 01:41 am |
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6th Post |
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Ej Member
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I know of no approved, by the mfg, add-ons to date. Even by the solenoid manufactures that have been in business for decades. If you have the blessings of the top three mfg then I will be your best customer 
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18th, 2009 01:50 am |
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7th Post |
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American Pacific Member
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The "Gas Water Heater Timer" replaces the plastic knob on the water heater gas control valve. It does not change or alter the manufactured valve in any way. It simply turns the gas valve on to the desired setting or to the vacation setting. It is a wonderful thing. American Pacific
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 11:25 pm |
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8th Post |
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Geno_3245 Member
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There are 2 gas water heater timers on the market since Spring 2010 American Pacific gas water heater timer Bradford White programmable setback controller Bradford White, Rheem and AO Smith are each introducing electronic gas valves on their water heater brands aimed at integration with external controls, temperature and capacity read-outs, and smart-grid http://waterheatertimer.org/New-water-heater-ideas.html#timers
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| Posted: Wed Sep 1st, 2010 12:29 am |
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9th Post |
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elenano Member
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Anybody considering a timer should also consider something else: A Metlund D'MAND system. Recently, American Pacific tried to get me to give them a link on my Resources page, saying they were very green and saved tons of energy. I replied that the Metlund was better, and then my friend Larry Weingarten pointed out that a PG&E tech gave him a study that made it clear that the heater would need to be off about 24 hours to start saving energy. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Wed Sep 1st, 2010 02:51 am |
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10th Post |
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energyexpert Member
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Randy, The deadband issue which comes up frequently about gas water heaters shows that a gas WH does not fire during the 6 to 8 hours (sleep time). So 12 to 24 hours seems reasonable to start seeing "savings" from a gas WH "not operating". David
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| Posted: Wed Sep 1st, 2010 06:17 am |
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11th Post |
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Geno_3245 Member
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The discussion if a gas water heater timer saves money can be settled easily. Simply rotate the gas valve to vacation when you're not using the appliance, and then check difference on gas bill. That should prove if a timer works for you. The D'mand system & Chilipepper circulation systems raise a question in my mind. They speed water to the faucet using 1/3 hp I believe ... so how much extra pressure is this on the water line, and riser? Or is this a different topic?
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| Posted: Thu Sep 2nd, 2010 04:44 am |
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12th Post |
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elenano Member
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David, I expect the question on this would be, how much insulation? My own poster-child water heater, still functioning since 1981, has only R-6, one inch. It also has deadband issues once in awhile. But all that is worth it, just to be able to point to something confirming that what we say about anodes and longevity is true -- and to avoid the accursed FVIR systems of modern heaters!  But will that be true of a newer heater with two or more inches of insulation? Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Thu Sep 2nd, 2010 10:47 am |
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13th Post |
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energyexpert Member
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Randy, My opinion on gas WHs is that most of the losses are from the baffled heat exchanger ("flue") up through the middle of the heater. Here you have a vertical metal pipe essentially open on each end surrounded by hot water. The chimney effect is always there stripping heat from the water. Adding more insulation to the outside does little for overall losses. An analogy: If you have 12 inches of insulation in your attic but have leaky windows and doors, adding another 12 inches in the attic does nothing to help the window/door problem. David
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| Posted: Thu Sep 2nd, 2010 11:47 pm |
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14th Post |
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Geno_3245 Member
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Does your water heater need insulation? Tape thermometer to water heater, cover thermometer with fiberglass insulation, after 20 minutes, remove insulation and compare before-and-after thermometer readings.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 04:02 am |
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15th Post |
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elenano Member
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First David: Maybe you are right, maybe I am right. I just supposed the utility (PG&E) rep would have some basis for his conclusions. Then Geno: Whether it needs it or not, it's not going to get it. The fiberglass jackets are messy, while the thermal ones don't work. My heater is in the garage, and winters around here are nothing like in the frozen North. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 06:31 pm |
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16th Post |
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energyexpert Member
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I'm not sure what the test Geno suggested means. Assume the WH is set at 140F and room temperature is 70F. If WH has 2 inches of insulation and you tape thermometer to the outside and then add 2 inches of identical insulation the thermometer should reach about 105F. If 18 inches of identical insulation is added the thermometer should reach about 133F. David
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| Posted: Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 11:30 pm |
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17th Post |
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Geno_3245 Member
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If thermometer that is taped to outside of tank, and covered with insulation, reads higher temp than ambient room temp, then your water heater is putting off heat. This means tank would benefit from additional insulation unless water heater is used to heat room. When insulating water heater, don't cover TP valve on either gas or electric. For gas water heaters, do not cover top of tank, or gas valve, or lower 10" of tank where combustion/air-intake takes place. For electric heaters, it is safe to cover everything except TP valve. The TP valve must be free to push itself open in event of overheated water inside tank.
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