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slinke
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Posted: Thu Jan 31st, 2008 10:30 pm |
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I had an "American Water Heater" 40-gallon gas water heater (Model G62-40T34-3N) installed in November of 2002. The hot water was fine until a couple of days ago when it became thick with rust (or rust-colored contamination). Since the water heater has a 6-year warranty, I called American Water Heater. Given the information on this web site, it was not surprising when they blamed anode rod depletion for the problem.
However, they said that the rust was not coming from the tank, but rather from the anode, and that if I replaced the anode and flushed the tank, the rust would go away. However, they may just be telling me that so that they do not have to send me a whole new water heater, and I do not want to go to the trouble/expense of replacing the anode if the tank is rusting. The hex nut is in a place next to the flue and inlet/outlet pipes with very little clearance above it, such that I would likely have to disconnect the water heater and move it out of its "closet" to accomplish this. At that point, it might make sense to replace the whole thing.
In addition, we soften our water, so I assume this anode problem is going to keep happening, and I'm not really excited about having to replace (or even check) an anode every few years. I saw the "powered anode," but none of the plumbers I spoke with have ever heard of such a thing, so I am reluctant to spend almost as much on a powered wire as I do for the rest of the water heater (whether I stick with my current heater or buy a new one).
This site is great, and the valuable information creates confidence and trust, but I have lingering questions about the powered anode. What components does it include that lead to the high cost? Can I put it in a 6-year warranty water heater, and then forget about it for the next 12-20 years (other than annual flushing and T&P valve checks)? How much power does it consume? I don't mean to sound too skeptical, but hard evidence or some sort of warranty would help.
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elenano
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 02:06 am |
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Skepticism is not always a bad thing. And it's reasonable to be skeptical of something nobody has ever heard of. The powered anode is technically known as an impressed-current anode and while this is the only application I know of for water heaters, it has broad industrial applications, as you'll find if you search on that term.
Because of its cost, I really haven't promoted it for any situation other than odor because that is a place where the cost shrinks in significance relative to the problem. It could be used, however, for a situation such as you describe.
Anybody will have to replace their anodes, or water heaters, periodically, but softening potentially speeds things up. The rust you are seeing is from the tank, not the anode. American typically uses aluminum anodes, and the corrosion byproduct, if it flows out with the hot water at all, looks like cottage cheese.
The powered anode nominally has a seven-year warranty, but I've been told it should last more like 50 years. I don't know the power draw for it.
If you don't want to go that route, I'd suggest you make sure your next water heater has two anodes and that your softener is set to leave 60-120 ppm hardness in the water.
Randy Schuyler
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slinke
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 02:35 am |
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Thanks, Randy. I appreciate your response. I may go for a flexible anode or the powered version. Related to your reply, could you tell me how to achieve the 60-120 ppm hardness? Our Kenmore softener has a setting for the grains of hardness per gallon of the incoming water (e.g., 20 gpg). It is my understanding that it has a flow meter that predicts when enough water (at that hardness rating) has flowed through the softener such that the softening capacity is used up--and then it regenerates. In theory, I suppose I could set the hardness at a setting a grain or two or three lower than the actual hardness of our incoming water. However, logically, it seems like the water would still be fully softened up until the point where the softening capacity is used up, and then for the last short period of time, the hardness would increase substantially. For example, 4 days at 0 gpg, then 1 day ramping back up to 20 gpg. Am I mistaken, and is there a way to keep it at a lower gpg all of the time?
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eleent
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 04:33 am |
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Hello: I'm no expert on setting water softeners, but I do know that modern ones usually can be set to soften as much or little as you wish. The instructions I've seen for various models explain how, but a call to Sears might give that info if the instructions have left. In days gone by, when we had less intelligent softeners, you would plumb a bypass line around the softener. A valve in the line could be used to adjust the amount of hard water that bypassed the softener. This way, you got the right mix. No reason it wouldn't still work 
Yours, Larry
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slinke
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Posted: Fri Feb 1st, 2008 10:34 pm |
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Update: I bought a new AO Smith GVR-40 water heater. All of the documentation associated with it showed a hex-head anode screwed into the top "behind" the flue with a T&P valve coming out the side of the tank near the top. However, when I got it home and opened the box, there was just an empty threaded hole where I expected the anode to be. Thinking they must have forgotten to include it, I called AO Smith. In contrast to all of the documentation, the customer support person said that the anode must be connected to the hot water port, and that the empty threaded hole on top should be used for the T&P valve. This was supported by the fact that the port in the side of the tank was plugged, and the T&P valve came in a separate little box and required installation.
If this is all true, I am hoping that I can obtain a second anode to go in the hole on top (e.g., one of your magnesium ones) to at least double my anode life, and then remove the plug from the side port and install the T&P valve there. Perhaps you could indulge a few additional questions:
1. Does AO Smith's claim that there is an anode connected to the hot water port sound credible, despite the fact that all of the GVR-40 documentation I have seen shows the anode in the separate top port?
2. Any suggestions on how to unscrew the hot water port nipple to verify the existence of the anode and to put in Teflon tape to make it easier to check in the future after it is installed in its cramped space? It is VERY tight, and I don't want to damage the threads. There is also a plastic insert with a strange black rubberish thing in the hot water port. It seems like that should stay in there. Correct?
3. Is it OK to install the T&P valve in the side port?
4. If so, is there some funky tool required to loosen the plug that has a squarish hole?
5. Do I need some sort of nipple, or something, to extend out for the T&P valve? The hole seems too deep to accomodate the threads.
6. If the anode connected to the hot water port is aluminum (that is what I expect based on the spec sheet), is it OK to use a magnesium one in the separate top port, or is there a compatibility issue?
7. When I start checking the anode(s) for deterioration in the future, do I have to check the one connected to the hot water port, or can I just check and replace the separate one, and let the hot water port one get consumed?
Sorry for all of these questions. I understand if you can't answer.
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elenano
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 03:33 am |
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Well, Smith hasn't done you any favors here. They do make tanks that just have a combo rod in the hot port and it's not uncommon for that rod to be aluminum. If it is that, I don't recommend adding a magnesium anode as it will be consumed much faster in the presence of the aluminum rod than it would be with another magnesium one.
The black thing in the nipple is a heat trap and stays, as you surmised. If the nipple is a short one with no place to put a wrench without damaging the threads, don't mess with it until you're ready to replace it.
The plug on the side could be removed for the T&P, but we've found in the past that they are hard to get out. But that is what it is for, to give a customer the option of either top or side installation. So you could put another anode in that top port if you can get the plug out. Actually, being on the side, that plug offers the possibility of considerable leverage to be put on it. The ones that made us crazy were screwed into a port on top.
Usually T&Ps screw directly into the tank.
But you know what I'd do? I'd take it back and say, "#@!!! This isn't what I ordered. Give me what I ordered! It's not their job to sell you what they want, but what you want.
Randy Schuyler
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slinke
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 06:33 am |
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Thanks for your advice, Randy! Now that I've got the water heater home and all cut out of its box, I think I am going to try to turn this issue into a positive thing. If I can get the T&P valve installed in the side, I will put an aluminum anode in the hole on top to double the anode capacity. Then, when it wears out several years down the road, perhaps I can put in a magnesium or powered anode, and assume that the aluminum anode in the hot port is also consumed. On the bright side, since it is just an empty hole up there now, I don't have to suffer trying to get a factory-tight, Teflon tape-free anode out of there. 
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eleent
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Posted: Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 07:17 pm |
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Hello: I've installed some of these tanks and as Randy says, that plug on the side can be memorable to remove. But, the square hole in it does fit a 1/2" drive extension. If you can get it out, you'll need an extended shank T&P to fit in. That part shouldn't be too difficult to find.
As for the combo aluminum anode... I'd remove it and replace with a magnesium anode along with a mag rod in the empty port on top ~~~or~~~ simply put a lined nipple in the hot side and a powered anode in the vacant port. I'm not a fan of aluminum as it produces volumes of jelly-like goo that causes a heater to make noise and it probably is not good for your health. The only time I'd leave it in the tank is if I was installing a heater that only served a laundry.
Yours, Larry
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slinke
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Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2008 04:08 am |
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I installed my new water heater. It now has two anodes--one combo in the hot port and one in the top port. It turned out that the plug in the side, where I put an extended T&P valve, was actually pretty easy to get out. It seemed to have some grease or thread compound on the threads, and I did NOT even need a "cheater bar" to get it loose.
Just for some shock value and/or comic relief, I have attached a picture of the "anode rod" from the old water heater. I DID need a cheater bar (3/4" iron pipe over the end of the ratchet) to get it out, but it wasn't too hard--probably because I laid it down on its side. Needless to say, the anode was FULLY consumed--down to a 3" rusty wire.  This was the result of softened water for just over 5 years on an aluminum rod in a tank with a 6-year warranty.
Hopefully, the dual rods will last at least 6 years with softened water, at which point I will replace the non-combo rod with a flexible Mg or powered anode. I guess I'll have to check the status regularly. 
Attachment: DSC03747.JPG (Downloaded 20 times)
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