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micali
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 04:12 am |
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bad part is there is not other access to the water lines but at the HWH. Why does it make a difference if it is up high or low? Isn't that what the tank is for to collect water? The way the tech was talking it didn't sound like the tank was very big. I hope this guy is doing right.
How big are expansion tanks?
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elenano
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 06:25 pm |
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I just explained why it makes a difference whether it's high or low. Did you read it? But what the tank does is this. It is charged with air. When the pressure in the piping expands, the water pushes into the tank against the air instead of opening your T&P. Then when the pressure drops, it flows back out again. The tank is not huge, maybe 12 inches in diameter and 15 high.
Randy Schuyler
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micali
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 09:49 pm |
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Of course I read what you posted. I guess I don't or I wouldn't say it. You must not understand what I am trying to say either.
I understand that the rubber in tank doesn't like the hot water but I only have one place to put it and that is right above the tank. I don't have room to put it below the tank. What I am saying I don't see how it matters if it is above the tank or below warm water is going to go into the expansion tank either way. Unless I can move it somewhere else which I can't.
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eleent
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Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 11:21 pm |
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Hello: If you have outside hose bibbs, or a laundry tub in the garage... any cold line downstream of where water comes into the house will work nicely as a place to park the expansion tank. If it's close to the heater, it will suffer a shortened life. If it's on the hot side it will push hot water back into the cold line, which I promise you, won't be fun. So, have a look around and find a place with cold water that doesn't freeze. That's a candidate for the expansion tank 
Yours, Larry
ps. The part about plumbing/placement above the tank has to do with what's happening when no water is being used. When sitting, hot water will migrate back up into the cold line. If the expansion tank is attached there, it will suffer nearly as much as if it were on the hot side 
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micali
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 01:59 am |
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| If it is placed on the cold side above the tank, like the plumber is wanting to do, then I can expect a shortened life on the expansion tank. Is there anything else that could happen? I don't need anymore problems. thanks for explanation.
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elenano
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 06:19 am |
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Actually, you have another option and I think it might be the one you should take. Watts, a company that makes temperature/pressure relief valves, has a device called a Governor 80. It replaces the ballcock in your toilet tank and vents excess pressure there. Go to Watts' website to learn more about it.
Then you don't have to worry about expansion tanks and placement and shortened life and all that. And by the way, you were talking about doing it yourself. This solution is far more in that range than messing with the water heater and expansion tank.
Randy Schuyler
Last edited on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 06:42 am by elenano
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micali
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 02:15 pm |
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| cool thanks, I look into it.
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micali
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 02:29 pm |
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| Wow,sounds like what I need. I am going to get one. From thier site it is $70 but I found it on Ebay for $50. I hope this takes care of it. Thanks for everything.
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micali
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 06:06 pm |
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| another question. These units say they have a 80psi relief how does this work. How does it work to help the T&P valve from leaking? I am lost. It sounds all good just don't want a gimmick.
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eleent
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 08:50 pm |
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Hello: It's no gimmick. It simply opens at 80 psi and relieves pressure. Pressure pushes open a spring. It works like a normal pressure relief valve but at 80 psi rather than 150 psi. I'd still check everything with a gauge before doing any plumbing so the problem is clearly identified.
Yours, Larry
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micali
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 09:58 pm |
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| but wouldn't an expansion tank be better? I don't understand. What I am hoping for is that this would keep my tank from leaking. Is the pressure being built up inside the tank for the t&P to leak? I'm confused.
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eleent
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 10:13 pm |
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Hello: Basically everything in the plumbing system, downstream of a pressure reducer is at the same pressure most of the time. That's why it doesn't matter where on the cold system an expansion tank goes. I prefer an expansion tank to a Governor 80, but if you have no place to put the expansion tank, than choices are limited.
A pressure gauge should be in every plumber's tool box, but sadly it's not, and that leads to guesswork
Yours, Larry
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micali
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Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 11:42 pm |
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Well he did use this guage that he put on the outside facuet. He siad the psi was 60. So probably it's not the temp that is causing the T&P to leak but pressure. Why don't all homes do this?
I don't think I have any kind of regulator or reducer on the line to the house unless it is buried outside. I can see exactly where the water comes in to the house.
what is the pros and cons for the gov 80 vs expansion tank.
Last edited on Sat Mar 22nd, 2008 11:49 pm by micali
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eleent
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Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 01:20 am |
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Hello: It's not adding up If you only had 60 psi and no sort of pressure reducer/backflow preventer/check valve, even with the heater firing and causing thermal expansion; it would simply back into the line and the relief valve would not run. Yes, I know that was a run on sentence  Get your own gauge and test things on your own time. Keep notes. Put the gauge on a line, run no water and fire up the heater. Watch the gauge like a hawk for fifteen minutes. If the pressure doesn't go up at all, thermal expansion isn't the problem.
Maybe there is some problem from the water supplier, but you need to test. We're all guessing at answers until we have some good info from that gauge that's waiting at the hardware store with your name on it 
Yours, Larry
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micali
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Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 01:52 am |
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is it one of those cheap guages for $10? Would I hook it up to the line at the bottom of the tank? That seems to be the only place you could do it. I should have the plumbers come back and do this for me. I paid them $40 bucks to do something.
So if i get the guage and I hook it up to the tank then do I just turn on a faucet in the bathroom and wait? How will I know if the tank is firing? sorry for all the questions. You have been alot of help.
Another thing, what if the tank is not building pressure what else could be the issue?
If you don't want to answer until I get more info that's fine.
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eleent
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Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 03:56 am |
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Hello: I wouldn't have the plumber do this gauge stuff. To do it right will take some time and the plumber likely won't/can't give it the time needed. Any hose bibb on the house will work. Bibbs that run cold water are less likely to leak than the drain on the heater. The easy way to make the heater fire is to run some hot water. You have an electric heater and should be able to hear some sizzling sounds from the tank whrn it's heating. Or, you could have a look at your electric meter. It spins faster when 4500 watts is being used. Once you have the unit heating, make sure no water is running and go sit with the gauge. Gauges are ten to fifteen dollars. Keep notes!
Yours, Larry
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