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| Can't get more then 3 years out of my tanks! | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 08:51 pm |
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1st Post |
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photoman2 Member 
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Hello, I finely found a site that may help us with our hot water tank issues. We have been living in this house from 1984 so some 25 years.. We have well water.. I know it's high in maganese " spelling?" and salt.. When we got the house back in 84 it needed a hot water heater so I got one from True Value hardware.. It lasted one year then a leak developed in the side of the tank .. We replaced it 3 times in three years and all with he same leak.. " I tore the jacket off and seen a small rust hole about 3/4 the way up the side spraying water out also on many others over the years.. oh this is a 40gal electric tall tank.. next tanks we got from Sears there Power Miser 6 would last me 3 years so we continued to use then for years. then in 2005 I got tired of changing out the tank every 3 or so years so we got talked into a Power Miser 9 from Sears they said it would last longer.. It lasted to years and leaks at the same place as the older ones .. This is nuts.. I almost install a water softener but was glad I didn't after coming across this sight.. Help!!! Please!! What should I do? I'm going nuts.. I almost lost it last week when we had brown water in the bath tub.. This is the sine a leak is coming in a few weeks to a few months or so.. This sucks... What can I do to put a end to replacing the heaters? Thanks! Sears is starting to be a pain in the butt about replacing them.. We do have a expanshion tank on the well pump set to 45lbs cut off and 25 lbs cut on.. George & Penny
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 02:04 am |
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2nd Post |
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energyexpert Member
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George and Penny, Check out http://www.marathonheaters.com and http://www.howardharrisbuilders.com The Marathon (I have a 105 gallon tank) is a fiberglass tank with a polybutylene inner lining. The cheapest place I have found to buy Marathons is http://www.chec.coop. The H.H2O heater from Harris is a hot water plastic non-pressure holding tank. Domestic water is be heated flows through a finned copper pipe internal of the tank and picks up the BTUs from the water in the tank. But the water stays in the copper pipe and does not mix with the tank water. The Marathon should be flushed at normal intervals and the H.H2O must have water added to the tank occasionally. It seems as fast as you go through a steel tank you should stay away from them. David
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28th, 2009 03:35 am |
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3rd Post |
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elenano GCF-GL
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The Marathon may indeed solve your problem, but so might a powered anode, for quite a bit less (and disclosure: Energyexpert doesn't sell Marathons, but I do sell powered anodes; I mainly recommend them for odor issues, but they could be very effective in a highly corrosive environment, too). In either of these cases, it's presuming you KNOW you have a rapid corrosion problem and not, say, a high-pressure problem. It would be instructive to see an anode from one of the tanks that failed. That could tell you a lot. I think a very important step to take right now is to get a water pressure gauge and check both static pressure -- what it is when nothing is going on, and pressure at the water heater drain valve when the tank is firing to maintain temperature, but nobody is using hot water. You can create that condition with a little manipulation of the temperature control. Go to Troubleshooting from the homepage, then Tanklets, then Temperature/Pressure Relief Valves and read that one. That will acquaint you with the basics of thermal expansion. Your expansion tank should take care of that -- if it's set right and it's actually working. Sometimes the rubber diaphragms go with age and hot water. A contributor named Undees is fond of posting his photo of a water pressure gauge, and I think he did a day or so ago within a few posts of this one. I also suggest that you go to the homepage and click on the link for What Kills Water Heaters. My mentor, Larry Weingarten, who sometimes hangs out here, taught me to assume nothing when troubleshooting. Let's see what we can learn about your problem. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 02:48 pm |
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4th Post |
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photoman2 Member
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Thank you both! I had checked a few of the Anode rods over the years.. Last tank was this Sears Power Miser 9 and at the two years " end of it's life" I pulled the Anode Rod out and there was just a thin wire left with no rod on it... Some of the tanks over the years that i pulled the Anode Rod from didn't even have this thin wire on it.. I could see the wire in the tank if I looked inside one of the electric heat element hole after pulling it.. Over the years I tried daring the tank once a month. Still had no impact on there life of the heater.. Sorry I forgot to add the info about the condition of the anode rods.. And would the magnesium rod be my best bet if I try one more tank from Sears? As I should have 5 years left on the warranty on this one if they don't throw me out of the store this time!! In the manual book for the tank if I pull the anode rod before the 9 years of warranty I lose it.. But it said that the rod should be checked annually after the warranty expires!! LOL!! I never get close! George & Penny
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29th, 2009 04:57 pm |
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5th Post |
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elenano GCF-GL
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If anodes are being consumed that rapidly, I'd consider doing this: try a powered anode, but keep the factory one. I believe this is mainly a corrosion issue and that a powered anode will solve the problem. It can throw a lot more current than a sacrificial anode. At the same time, it's not impossible that you could get a defective tank that started leaking within a few months even with an intact anode. In that case, it would be simpler to get another under warranty if the heater had it's original anode in it instead of mine, which is noticeably different. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17th, 2009 07:25 pm |
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6th Post |
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photoman2 Member
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Randy, Thanks for your replies! The saga continues,, I had this Sears power miser 9 tank for 2years and just a few months.. A few days ago we woke up to 3" of water in the basement.. fighting with sears service.. I finally got a replacement tank and I installed it.. this is #3 replacement with the Sears power miser 9 in 4 years.. I got a Power miser 6 this time as that's what they had in stock. Anyway I lived here for over 25 years and I know I have bad water, salt, magnees and acid water.. I never got more then 3 years out of any tank.. Yes I did the draining of the tank once a month. I have a expansion tank in the system and keep the water temp low.. My anode rod is completely depleted in 2 years.. guessing I would need to change them every 6 months with my bad water.. Would this get me past the 2 to 3 year mark? If i went with a rod what would be the best type? You have told me of your electric anode rode replacement. device.. I'm sorry but I just don't have that kind of money to take a chance on it not working and taking two years to find out, can you see my Delmer.. The price of the device would be like a coupon off a Marathon tank $830 bucks after I can get as many replacements tanks from sears as I can say one more two if I'm lucky.. If i was only sure it would work. I would not be till I got well over 3 years out of a tank to know ... This tank is only installed 3 days.. Is there any thing we can work out where I would not have so much risk? Any good used units? I'm at the end of my ropes with changing these out. or should I say after going through so many heaters Sears is now giving me a really hard time wanting to charge me a service call $75 bucks for the service guy water gushing out the side of the tank. Heck I know it's leaking from the tank.. "I got out of it this time".. Sears owner gave me a extended service warranty this time for free he felt so bad.. Thank you for your help! George Last edited on Mon Aug 17th, 2009 07:29 pm by photoman2 |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2009 01:03 am |
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7th Post |
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elenano GCF-GL
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If you stay with sacrificial anodes, you want to have two, of the same metal. Two magnesium or two aluminum. That doubles the amount of rust protection and lengthens the interval between replacement. Aluminum has an edge purely from the corrosion standpoint because it produces lower driving current; that means it's less reactive. I don't and won't sell them except the aluminum/zinc ones for odor and even then I put a warning in the instructions about avoiding ingesting aluminum. Your Kenmore could have either metal for anodes. Use my Anodes page to determine which. I WILL say my magnesium anodes are 25 percent thicker than most factory anodes and again, that means more sacrificial metal in the tank. As to the powered anode, I know they work. I started selling them almost three years ago and have sold hundreds since then. NOBODY has ever come back said, "You curmudgeon! My water heater broke!" And it had better stay that way. If this device didn't protect water heaters pretty well, life could become very messy around here.  All of them were used in softened water and if they didn't work, the earliest tanks would have rusted out by now. Beyond that, you don't have to wait two years to find out if they work. It will either work or your heater will rust out in a few months. Powered anodes are not sacrificial; they don't get used up, so your two-year limit for the sacrificial anode is utterly meaningless when talking about powered. The electrode is titanium and the current flowing through it protects it from corrosion along with the interior tank steel. Powered anodes are a permanent replacement for sacrificial, but I still don't recommend them for nonsoftened applications. I just recently decided to recommend them for longevity purposes in softened water even when there is no odor and it's largely because of their track record so far. But there is a possibility that sediment buildup in hard water could bury part of the electrode and burn it out; that happens commonly to lower electric elements. Then the heater would rust out when the power anode went out. I don't feel comfortable trusting people to install flush kits and actually use them, since it's so generally easy for most people to forget water heater service intervals anyway. In softened systems, there will be very little sediment, so it's not an issue there. I don't have any used powered anodes and wouldn't sell one if I did. I would be afraid of the possibility that it could have been damaged being pulled out of a heater and moved around and might suddenly stop working, thus causing the water heater to rust out. I'm not taking that gamble. It's really up to you: stay with sacrificial, try out the powered, or start saving for a Marathon. No single sale is anywhere as important as customer satisfaction and me maintaining my reputation, so I rarely push people to buy. The products are available if you want them. The choice is yours. Randy Schuyler Last edited on Tue Aug 18th, 2009 01:04 am by elenano |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18th, 2009 04:45 pm |
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8th Post |
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photoman2 Member
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Randy, Thanks for your info! We do not have a water softener in the system.. Will the power anode rod still work? The wife just informed me we have hard water.. I don't see how that could be with salt present.. ph is 3 and like I said magnees.. thought I'm not sure of the spelling.. One final thought on all the tanks I went through.. Is it at all posable that I had them all wired wrong? The feed is 240V 2 wire with white and black with copper ground wire.. Heaters have had Yellow Blue and black wires.. My hookup was with the feed #1 ground the copper wire to the tank. #2 hook the feed white wire to the tanks yellow wire. #3 feed hook up black wire to both the blue and black wires on the tank.. This is how I was hooking them all up... Is it posable I am induceing current somhow that it destroying my tanks? Thanks again! George
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 12:49 am |
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9th Post |
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elenano GCF-GL
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Maybe you said before that you didn't soften and I just forgot! I'm astonished that the water heaters and anodes are consumed so rapidly in nonsoftened water. The grounding could be an issue. Larry Weingarten is out of town right now but he is especially good at this sort of thing and I will ask him to post when he returns. I want his opinion on powered anode or not, too. I'm much more interested in you solving the problem than in selling something. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19th, 2009 02:50 pm |
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10th Post |
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photoman2 Member
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Randy thanks so much! It will be interesting what Larry has to say, if I could somehow put another ground on the heater or something.. Mind you I am still contemplating your powered anode rod.. Thanks again for your honesty and help with this matter! George elenano wrote: Maybe you said before that you didn't soften and I just forgot! I'm astonished that the water heaters and anodes are consumed so rapidly in nonsoftened water. The grounding could be an issue. Larry Weingarten is out of town right now but he is especially good at this sort of thing and I will ask him to post when he returns.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 06:00 am |
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11th Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: One thing that stands out is the Ph of three. That's stunningly acidic! I'd double check that number and then put in Ph buffer if the water is at all acidic. That will save the plumbing as well, if it's metal. Once that's fixed, other problems will be easier to solve. As for the wiring, there should be a wiring diagram that comes with the heater, showing how to hook up. Testing for leaks to ground might be useful, as would jumpering and grounding at the tank. That will keep any stray currents away from the heater. Yours, Larry Last edited on Thu Aug 20th, 2009 06:02 am by eleent |
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 01:22 pm |
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12th Post |
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photoman2 Member
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Larry, Thanks! I use to have fish tanks and fresh water fish and with my PH it was hard on them... OK PH buffer! First time I have heard of that.. I'll look into it.. I know I use to correct the ph for the fish with baking soda. Is a PH buffer installed like a water softener? I have well water it's a 21 foot dug well. Can I treat the water in the well directly and manage it that way? I'll put a meter across the ground and the tank and see if I have a good solid ground or maybe add a few more ground wires to various spots on the tank and jacket.. Your thoughts please! Thanks again! George
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 04:32 pm |
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13th Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: Here's a link to a Google search on ph buffers; http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=ph+buffer+culligan&aq=&aqi=&aq=&aqi=&fp=c9fe100d9e542c1e I've not heard of treating water directly in the well, but it's a question to ask the makers of treatment systems. You should be able to locate an automatic system that gives a fixed ph output. Electrically speaking, I'd put a bare, solid #6 copper wire between hot and cold lines and run it from there to a good ground. You could also tie it into the green grounding screw on top of the heater. That way you should be covered, stray-current-wise. Hope that helps  Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 04:42 pm |
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14th Post |
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photoman2 Member
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Larry, Thanks for you advice! I have been in the google search mode from the time I read your last post.. lots to learn about PH buffering! It's all gibberish to me at this point.. I'll try your link and read more on it. But I do understand your grounding procedure and I get on doing that. Thank you! George New info Please read Randy maybe your Powered anode rod would work in my heater. Maybe you can be sure if you have a little more info.. Also I just wanted to note I found a water test that was done when we got the house.. If I post that info would that help detect my heater issues? I posted a PH value of 3 I got that from a hand PH indicator going by the color change that takes place.. My water tests showed me another much higher number.. PH is 6.3.. Also Manganese, mg/l = 0.44 Sodium mg/l = 68 Hardness mg/l = 34 I can provide more info if needed!! George eleent wrote: Hello: Here's a link to a Google search on ph buffers; http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=ph+buffer+culligan&aq=&aqi=&aq=&aqi=&fp=c9fe100d9e542c1e I've not heard of treating water directly in the well, but it's a question to ask the makers of treatment systems. You should be able to locate an automatic system that gives a fixed ph output. Last edited on Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 05:17 pm by photoman2 |
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