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| Is this a water heater issue? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2009 06:47 pm |
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1st Post |
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trw888 Member 
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This is probably an indication of a problem with the water lines instead of the water heater, but I just want to make sure. My front-loading washer threw an error code indicating that it wasn't getting sufficient water. This happened about a year and a half ago. When it did, I found lots of sediment in both water lines at the washer connection, but the hot water line was especially bad. I cleaned them out and the problem went away. Until today when the same thing happened. Once again there was all kinds of sediment/crap at the hot water connection. Since I don’t get the same kind of sediment at any other point in the house, I’m guessing this is probably means a problem with the water line???? But I just want to make sure. The water heater is 17-years-old. For whatever it's worth, I recently installed a re-circulating pump on the heater and discovered that the galvanized pipe leading into the house was loaded with crude. I’m a little surprised that the water pressure is still fine. The pipes are galvanized steel. As you can probably tell, I’m a novice at plumbing. But I’m having a number of plumbing issues pop up lately with my 55-year-old house so I’m learning fast. So, is this a water heater issue or pipes? Thanks in advance for any feedback.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2009 09:50 pm |
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2nd Post |
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elenano GCF-GL
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If you didn't install a check valve with the recirc pump, you could be getting sediment drawn backward off the bottom of the water heater and into other places. See http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/Commercial/recirc-valving.html for our thinking about the installation of check valves. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2009 10:57 pm |
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3rd Post |
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trw888 Member
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Thanks for the quick response. I can see how the check valve would make sense. But I didn't have a recirulating pump when the washer plugged up the first time. I installed the pump just two weeks ago. Is it possible that sediment could have plugged things up so quickly?
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 06:41 am |
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4th Post |
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eleent Member
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Yes. Easily! Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 04:09 pm |
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5th Post |
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trw888 Member
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Well, that would explain why the aerator in the kitchen faucet, which I looped the pump through, clogged up a day or two after I installed it. So, this leads to two more questions: 1. I emptied the tank about a half ago and again when I installed the pump two weeks ago. Why didn't this take care of the sediment? 2. How big a deal is this? I have limited funds at the moment, but several looming plumbing issues: a nearly 18-year-old heater, a couple slow drains, toilets that don't always flush particularly well, and 57-year-old galvanized pipes throughout the house, a couple of which have had leaks in recent years. So, I'm trying to get a handle on what I need to deal with sooner rather than later. Thanks for any and all insights. Tim
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 08:56 pm |
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6th Post |
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elenano GCF-GL
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Go to the homepage, click on The Basics, then on Sediment and learn why the shape of the bottom of the water heater makes draining a waste of time. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 10:08 pm |
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7th Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: You need to install a spring loaded check valve. Unfortunately, plumbing cares only about physics, not finance  The other problem that a good check valve will fix is reduced hot water supply, caused by water short circuiting backwards through the recirc line.Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 12:02 am |
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8th Post |
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trw888 Member
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I sure appreciate the help. I'll try and make this my last question. Would I damage anything if I simply unplugged the recirculating pump until I can replace the water heater in a month or three? It's a Watts pump that's connected at the water heater -- if such details matter. Thanks.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 05:50 am |
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9th Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: There are risks to simply unplugging the pump. First, the pump will, in time freeze up. You may not be able to un-stick it. The line will allow backflow, bringing sediment and cool water to hot taps. If you close a valve in the line to stop this sediment and cool water, you'll have what's called a dead leg and bacteria will have a perfect place to grow. And you thought plumbers had an easy, carefree life  Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 02:58 pm |
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10th Post |
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trw888 Member
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 Oh man! Sigh! Sounds like installing the pump on a geezer of a water heater was a mistake. Ok, so it sounds like I have three options at this point: 1. install a spring-loaded check valve 2. completely remove the recirculating pump 3. keep everything as it and replace the water heater asap Do I have this right? (Maybe this will be my last question  ). Tim
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 03:56 pm |
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11th Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: I like "installing the spring check valve" option best. It needs to be there regardless of what heater it works with and shouldn't really cost much to do. Finding one might take a little doing though. Nibco is one brand. Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 06:24 pm |
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12th Post |
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trw888 Member
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So, none of the photos on this wonderful site look anything like the recirculating system I installed. The pump I installed went above the tank. So, I'm a little confused where exactly the valve would go. Also, remember back up in my first post when I talked about the sediment hitting my clothes washer? Well, since I cleaned out the lines, it seems to be washing everything in hot water even though we're washing things in warm or cold. What's up with that????? Could this some how be related to the pump??? It didn't do this after I first installed the pump. And yes, I installed the hot and cold lines on the right connections. I double checked. I'm a bit of nob when it comes to these things. But I usually do ok when pointed in the right direction. Tim
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 07:29 pm |
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13th Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: Pump placement doesn't much matter, but where the recirc pipe hooks up does. Did you tie into the cold supply on top of the heater or at the drain port at the bottom? Have a look at both hot and cold connections to the washer. One of the screens might be clogged. When you have them apart, run water full stream into a big bucket to check flow and temperature and to flush the lines. It may be a machine problem, but the only way to figure it out is to assume nothing and put your troubleshooter's hat on  (It's the same type Sherlock Holmes wore.)Yours, Larry ps. One other thing... the pump you put in is pushing water back towards the tank, right? Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 07:31 pm by eleent |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:53 pm |
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14th Post |
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trw888 Member
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First, I did as you suggested and ran the hot and cold washer lines into a bucket full stream. Neither was clogged and the pressure was just fine...but the cold water was this nasty orangish-brown yuck.???????? I shudder to think we've been washing clothes in that. If it matters at all, there's no odor to it, and as far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be a little bits of grit or such. The hot water looked fine. The former owner of the house had a leak in the galvanized water line heading into the laundry room patched shortly before we moved in 3.5 years ago. Could this be a sign that it's leaking again? I checked the water meter with all the faucets off and it wasn't turning. As for the pump, I installed it (per instructions) just above the heater into the hot water out line. I looped it through the kitchen faucet by attaching the water line to the hot water connection. I also installed an adapter that connected the hot and cold water lines. That's about as clear as the cold water heading into my washer isn't? Here's link to the instructions that might clear things up. http://www.watts.com/pdf/IS-IHWRS.pdf Geez, you guys have been a lot of help. Tim Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:15 pm by trw888 |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 09:48 pm |
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15th Post |
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trw888 Member
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Update...I flushed out the cold water line. It started to clear up after about five minutes and was back to normal after about 15.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 01:02 am |
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16th Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: Your Watts pump operates quite differently than the traditional recirc system. It pulls hot water from the heater and pushes it down the lines, to the cold side until it heats up that cross-over which lives under a sink. Cold returns to the heater via the cold side piping. Done this way, I don't see any way for sediment from the bottom of the heater to get into the plumbing. The ideas on check valve placement don't apply to this system. What this all means sadly is that any stuff in the screens is coming from the pipes directly. The orange- brown water from the cold side suggests there has been little if any flow there. Possibly the cold side valve in the washer is unhappy. If you turn the machine to cold wash, do you get any cold water flow? I would look into PEX plumbing. It is likely the easier pipe to transition to from steel when compared to copper. On the bright side, toilets can often be made to flush better by taking a coat hanger, cutting it to free up a wire to poke in all those little holes under the rim that have partly plugged up with scale. It is not a particularly fun job, but is done quickly and can significantly improve flushing performance The bright side is you may not need to spend money on porcelain.Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 02:35 am |
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17th Post |
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trw888 Member
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Believe it or not, your latest post actually comes as a huge relief – at least for the moment. My biggest stressor hasn’t been so much that I’m having all these issues, but how to prioritize them, and figure out what I can fix and what I need a pro for. Things are a lot more clear now. So, if I understand your last post, the water heater and pump are probably fine. The issue is the pipes, which is huge, but not a surprise. They were already high on the list. And maybe the washer. As for the toilet, I think I may have fixed that one. I forgot that in an overzealous attempt to save water (I live in Tucson and water conservation is a huge issue), I cut a couple of inches off the flush valve, not realizing at the time that I already had a low-flow toilet. Then I forgot I did this and have been complaining about flush quality for the last couple of years. Flushes seem better now with a new flush valve.  So, yeah. I’m looking into PEX, and I’m a lot less worried about everything else now. Thanks Larry and Randy!
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