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| Plastic tank water heaters | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29th, 2010 07:16 am |
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1st Post |
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Stephenopolus Member 
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I noticed Rheem has a "Marathon Series" electric that has a plastic tank. It is advertised to have "high-efficiency design with a lightweight tank that won't corrode" Anyone know if these tanks are sturdy. If the heat goes out in my utility room will the winter air cause them to warp or crack? I need a new heater and wonder if I should get one of these or a regular one. My old one just rusted through the bottom. Thanks
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29th, 2010 01:03 pm |
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2nd Post |
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energyexpert Member
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I've had a 105 gallon Marathon for 5 years. Let's be a bit more specific than "plastic". The tank is fiberglass with a polybuthylene inner liner and a polyethylene outer jacket with foam injected in between the fiberglass and polyethylene (no steel, no rust, no anode). Go to http://www.marathonheaters.com, under Consumers click on Features and Benefits to see a cut away of a Marathon. Under the cut away you can click on Factory Tour to see how they are made. The 105 model weighs 135 lbs. A steel tank of that size would weigh close to double that. Most "plastics" (and steel) get brittle at cold temperatures. I would not spray it with a CO2 fire extinguisher and heat it with a hammer. But just it sitting in a room at low temperature would not concern me. I would not place an insulating blanket on a Marathon. The outer polyethylene jacket may soften as it warms. Cheapest place I've found to buy Marathons is http://www.chec.coop. My wife and daughters went away for a couple (3?) of days. My son and I stayed home (yes we took showers). Just to see how long it took to cool down I turned off the breaker. It was summer so inlet temperature was cool not cold. The water was still warm (but not hot) when the ladies arrived back home and the test ended (women get hot over cold water!). David
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29th, 2010 03:46 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Stephenopolus Member
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Thanks a bunch for your reply. You are correct about the tank description. I pulled the "plastic" description from the Rheem website where it says "All plastic tank eliminates the need for an anode rod" It was quicker than typing the full description.  I "Googled" polybuthylene and found a class action lawsuit against the makers of polybuthylene piping. I am not sure of all the details but it does make me a little apprehensive of buying a water heater made from it. However, I just started shopping and haven't ruled this one out yet. Anyway, thanks for the input.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 03:19 am |
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4th Post |
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Stephenopolus Member
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Well, I have been shopping some more and WOW water heaters have gotten expensive! Unfortunately, this one is so expensive I could buy 2 of the metal water heaters the same size for the price of this one. Unless anyone can tell me a place to get it cheaper than the $850-$1000 prices I have been finding. 
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 03:53 am |
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5th Post |
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elenano Member
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Marathons always have been significantly more expensive than regular, glass-lined steel water heaters. In some cases, they may be worth the price. On the other hand, if you go with glass-lined steel, this site is about setting those up to get maximum life from them, for not a lot of money. If you had done what we advocate with your previous heater, it wouldn't have rusted out. My own heater is now 29 years old, four times older than anything on the block. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 02:44 am |
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6th Post |
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Stephenopolus Member
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Yes it does seem like what you guys are promoting would be the most cost effective route. But even 50gal steel is running around $400-$500 (Lowe's, Home Depot etc.) However, by the time I spend that much on a tank and another 100 for a modification/upgrade kit. I could be persuaded to spend the extra $300-$400 to get the plastic one and not mess with it. That is, if I could gain enough confidence in the plastic tank to buy it. When I was young you could get a 50gal steel tank in the $185-$250 range. The housing boom really affected a lot of stuff. Anyway, thanks for the help. I will mill it over some more this weekend and buy one or the other next week.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 04:03 am |
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7th Post |
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elenano Member
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When you were young, the federal government didn't mandate FVIR systems, either. That added a bunch to the price of a heater, and then other things have added some more. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Wed Sep 8th, 2010 10:22 pm |
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8th Post |
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Stephenopolus Member
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Wow Picking out a heater is a royal pain! I have yet to find a 6year heater with 3 in of insulation. The marketing people have that idea closed off. You can get different features at various cheaper price ranges but all of the tanks I have found with 3in insulation are over $400 at the cheapest. I did read in another thread that the "Marathon is the Cadillac of water heaters" but the cheapest 50 gal I have found is $764 and will take at least a week to get here. This is reminding me of shopping for a stereo when I was a kid. The rule there was "If you want a really good stereo buy individual components. If you buy a pre-packaged "system" you can get a good name and a couple of good components but they will stick in a cheap tape deck or crappy speakers to make more money from you. Shopping for a water heater seems to be same. Find 3in insulation in "brand A" but it has cheap anodes. "Brand B" has the good anodes but not enough insulation and their elements are cheap. This is frustrating. I do appreciate your site and all of the help you have offered. I am not at all frustrated with you guys. After all, had I not found this site I would not know to look for these components. It is really too bad I can't get a company to sell me an empty tank with great insulation and buy the components from you guys :-) Hey there may be a business idea here. In the same manner Roush or Callaway rebuilds new cars and engines to make them hot rods you guys could hot rod water heaters for resale. Just think..."The Rheem WHR 5000" hehe I guess I need to get some sleep now. Cheers! P.S. Who makes Reliance? I found them at ACE hardware Last edited on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 10:29 pm by Stephenopolus |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 8th, 2010 10:42 pm |
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9th Post |
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Stephenopolus Member
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I found this review from a customer who bought a Whirlpool. Is this safe? Could I do this without re-wiring? "This is the Best Water Heater, with 2 inches of insulation surrounding the tank. as soon as I got it home I removed both the 4500 watt heating elements and installed two 5500 watt stainless double loop elements and removed the 12 & 14 gauge wire and installed 10 gauge wire with loop terminals soldered onto them..It heats up to 114deg within 25 minutes and maintains hot water even under the most demanding conditions.. I would highly recommend it to anyone..I now have only $330.00 invested in it and is better than the $500.00 water heaters the other store sells..." Last edited on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 10:47 pm by Stephenopolus |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 8th, 2010 10:59 pm |
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10th Post |
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energyexpert Member
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WH manufacturers typically use wire with MTW/AWM rated insulation so it is approved for 105 C. 5500 watts draws 22.92 amps so manufacturers would probably only use #12 vs. #10 AWG but #10 is OK. Most thermostats and ECOs are rated at 6000 watts so you are OK there too. Changing from 4500 to 5500 watts is an increase of 22.2% so time to heat a given mass of water will decrease 18.2%. David
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| Posted: Wed Sep 8th, 2010 11:02 pm |
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11th Post |
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Stephenopolus Member
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Also, my utility room with the water heater is at the end of an enclosed back porch with a space heater for winter. I suspect the tank may have sweat and rusted through from the outside. Evidence was that the case bottom rusted out long before the tank did. And the insulation had water inside it (also long before the tank failed). It is the same tank as in my other thread: http://www.thetankatwaterheaterrescue.com/forums/forum3/2388.html I noticed in that thread I forgot to come back and add the photos and I found a detail that may help explain the leaky pop-off valve. I may have a closed system I will need to take some more photos. In my situation (back porch utility room) is the difference between 2" and 3" insulation going to make enough difference to merit the extra expense? Can a heater blanket make up for the extra inch of insulation? Perhaps 2 heater blankets? I believe I will install the new one up on patio blocks instead of directly on the concrete floor to help keep the outside from rusting. Any reason why I should not do that? Thanks Last edited on Thu Sep 9th, 2010 12:17 am by Stephenopolus |
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| Posted: Wed Sep 8th, 2010 11:08 pm |
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12th Post |
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Stephenopolus Member
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Thanks for the electric input David. It sound like just popping in the 5500 watt elements will work. That saves the headache of rewiring  By the way, The links you included in you previous post don't work correctly. The reason for this is that when you are typing and add punctuation to the end of the link, the browser adds the punctuation mark to the end of the link. So when someone clicks on it the browser can't find the requested page. I don't know why Microsoft and Firefox haven't fixed that but they haven't. It will work if you add a space between the link and the punctuation mark. It is kind of awkward to type it that way, especially at the end of a sentence when the period is dangling out in space, but it will help the page come up when the link is clicked  Example: I like the info at http://www.thetankatwaterheaterrescue.com, those guys really know their stuff. I like the info at http://www.thetankatwaterheaterrescue.com , those guys really know their stuff. One works one doesn't  No disrespect intended, I just didn't know if you realized they didn't work Last edited on Thu Sep 9th, 2010 12:42 am by Stephenopolus |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10th, 2010 07:35 pm |
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13th Post |
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Stephenopolus Member
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O.K. One more question about the "plastic" water heaters. If they are designed to not corrode and thus not have an anode, what keeps the elements and the ports they screw into from corroding?
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 12:26 pm |
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14th Post |
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energyexpert Member
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Marathon elements are threaded through brass ports. Historically brass has been used in salt water applications because of its resistance to corrosion. And when it does corrode the oxide layer (which is green) bonds tightly to the underlying metal so as to prevent further corrosion. Ship finders bring up brass cannons which are covered in barnacles but the metal is all there. Normal red rust Fe2O3 does not bond to the underlying metal but flakes off exposing more metal which rusts and flakes off etc. Fe3O4 (black rust) forms a more protective coating but this type of rust is only produced at high temperatures, Marathon elements have a stainless steel sheath but I don't know what alloy. Watch a Marathon being made: http://www.marathonheaters.com Under Consumers click "features and benefits" At the bottom click on "Marathon Tour" David
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