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| iron bacteria | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 1st, 2011 07:47 pm |
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21st Post |
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elenano Member 
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If the bacteria were being fed in the ground, then the cold water would reek, too. It doesn't. To me, that says this is merely bacteria reacting with sacrificial anodes. Powered anodes don't electrocute the bacteria or anything like that. What causes odor is the bacteria, sulfur in the water, and hydrogen generated by the anodic-cathodic reaction. We know an aluminum/zinc anode reduces odor by producing less driving current than straight aluminum, and thus, less hydrogen. We're not sure, but we think the powered anode simply produces much less hydrogen than a sacrificial anode. While salt makes a sacrificial anode work harder, it makes a powered anode work less hard, since its current more easily passes to the cathode. Randy Schuyler Last edited on Mon Aug 1st, 2011 07:49 pm by elenano |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 1st, 2011 09:29 pm |
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22nd Post |
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Krueger Member
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Randy, I bet anything that the cold water has a "metallic" smell to it. Like most other biological organisms, the bacteria prefer warmth and in this case stagnation. I would recommend that this person super-shock the well with two gallons of bleach, recirculate, run through all the house lines and let this sit overnight and then drain it all out the next day. Even Larry suggested "slime" in the lines. Removing all the bacteria from both the well and the water lines, combined with the new anode, could very well solve this problem without constant treatment. Last edited on Mon Aug 1st, 2011 09:41 pm by Krueger |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 2nd, 2011 05:43 am |
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23rd Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: Lots of interesting things in this thread! As to the question of sterilizing the water in the tank of bacteria, I don't think so, as the voltage is low and that's never been mentioned in any literature I've seen as a function of the powered anode. Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2011 03:18 am |
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24th Post |
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ali_in_eburg Member
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Update-- I was wrong when I wrote that we've been fighting the smelly dishes situation for four years. My records show that it's been since early 2009 (it just feels like 4 years, or 400 years...). I've gone through everybody's wonderful posts so I can address all points that have been brought up-- First: A big mistake that I made... it looks like our water is not particularly hard (62), but the Iron value was 0.61 (test results below). There is an air gap in the dishwasher drainline. My husband checked the trap yesterday and said it “couldn't be much cleaner.” The dishwasher door doesn't have any visible goo on it—some food particles sometimes, but not a goo build-up. I just scraped some off and the particles don't smell particularly bad. The dishwasher filter has also been quite clean every time I've cleaned it. Sometimes when I walk past the (open) dishwaher, I can smell the stench across the kitchen. It's not a rotten egg odor. I think it smells like decay—pond scum, maybe. George thinks it smells like wet dog. When it's strong, the smell is bad enough to make you gag. The smell really isn't just in the dishwasher. I've started using scented laundry detergent because of the smell after washing on the hot setting, so wet clothes don't smell too bad--but the smell does transfer to the dryer (where it remains—I have to try wiping it out...). HOT WATER TANK Last week, George tried cleaning out the dishwasher system by running some TSP through it. The next load of dishes smelled. Later he flushed the water heater with CLR because he thought that _maybe_ there could be some gunk at the bottom of the tank that hadn't been flused out. Then he also ran sonme CLR through the (empy) diswasher. The next load of dishes smelled. Then he flushed the water heater with hydrogen peroxide. The next load of dishes smelled. On Thursday he took out the new aluminum-zinc anode rod (plugged the hole with the sawed-off end of an older rod). The next load of dishes smelled. So I ran them again this morning and they still smelled...A third load washed today (Sunday) smells. Not much, but it's still there. COLD WATER While it's conceivable that the cold water also smells, we really don't think it does--not even a metallic smell. If nothing else, I would think that the water in hot tub water would reek if there were a problem with the cold water--?? WATER QUALITY Our most recent water test was in 4-09. At that time, I had ordered some additional tests because I was concerned about the hot water's smell. The report stated that we have “generally clean water with a fairly high Iron content causing discoloration and turbidity.” Most of the elements tested for were “Not Detected.” Tests for e-coli and choliform bacteria were negative. The following numbers were reported: pH 6.82 Conductivity 206 Color 25 Turbidity 7.8 Hardness 62 Total Dissolved Solids 77 Copper 0.009 Iron 0.61 Sodium 6.43 Calcium 3.65 Soooo....no anode rod, but it still smells (but not as badly). I am going to try re-washing this last batch of smelly dishes with hydrogen peroxide instead of bleach (ground water point taken!). Any suggestions are welcome! Thanks! Alix Last edited on Mon Aug 8th, 2011 03:22 am by ali_in_eburg |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2011 03:43 pm |
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25th Post |
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eleent Member
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Hello: If it were only the hot (or cold) water thet reeked, the aroma would be at all taps at the same strength. If the heater really smelled, you would get a strong dose of it when draining a bit of water from the heater's drain. Since my understanding is the dishwasher is far worse, there must be something hiding out there. Dishwashers can have hidden places that require tools to get to. Second is my concern that even though there is an air-gap, you may have sewer gas getting into the dishwasher. Third (and not relating to odor) is that your water is slightly acidic, which generally is bad for copper plumbing. I'd get some fresh eyes on it to look at the drain system and dishwasher. Whatever plumber or appliance guy you get to help needs to be in full troubleshooting mode, making no assumptions. Yours, Larry
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| Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2011 04:43 pm |
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26th Post |
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ali_in_eburg Member
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P.S. Since removing the anode rod, each load of dishes has smelled less. The last one smelled only slightly. I didn't hand wash (with bleach) the load before because the smell was so mild. I used one of the glasses for soda water--but then the odor reappeared after the water had sat in the glass for a couple of hours. Bleah. Thanks for your post, Larry. George and I are going to work through your response and get back to you. He wonders if there's a reaction that involves air somehow (which might be why the smell lingers in the clothes dryer, but not the washing machine). This is why I've stopped using the "air dry" feature of the dishwasher. ...more to follow. Again, thank you. Alix
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| Posted: Tue Aug 9th, 2011 07:33 pm |
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27th Post |
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ali_in_eburg Member
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Well...Last night I was going to re-wash the smelly dishes and...they didn't smell. Waited until this morning and they still don't smell--not at all. Soooo...we're going to keep the anode rod out for a few more days and...if the dishes start smelling again, you will hear my scream over the ether. If they don't...we'll buy a powered anode. More data(in case there's interest): --Water coming fresh out of the taps doesn't smell. --Standing water doesn't smell. We put hot water in two virgin glasses (i.e., not washed in dishwasher for several years), covered one, and left the open. Neither smelled immediately. We let them stand for two days--still no smell. --A few times there has been a smell that emanates from shower--water vapor suspended in the air? Or maybe from the drain? But only when the dishwasher has been smelling very bad. --After we got the new water heater and aluminum anode last fall, the dishwasher didn't smell for about 4 months. --Something seems to transfer to surfaces. It seems that the dryer smells because the "whatever" has rubbed onto the smooth surface from the wet clothes. Drinking glasses smell more often and worse than other dishes (although cutlery and plates have also smelled at times). Sometimes the smell is not discernible when the item is dry, but appears and is quite vile when the item is wet (e.g., glass with standing water or plate used in the microwave to defrost meat); --I believe that our water is slightly alkaline (pH 6.82), not acidic. We have very few copper pipes. (We live in an 1880's farmhouse that we moved in 2000 and replaced all plumbing, electrical, and insulation. Not an untoward expense, since the farmer who "sold" us the house charged only $1.) Anyway, fingers crossed. I'll keep you posted! Alix
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11th, 2011 01:25 am |
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28th Post |
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ali_in_eburg Member
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AARRGGHHHHH!!!!! New load this afternoon. They smell--really bad. HELP????? Alix
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11th, 2011 04:34 pm |
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29th Post |
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elenano Member
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OK, Alix, if you removed the anode and that alleviated the odor when you take a shower, but the dishwasher still reeks, you need to accept the fact that the water heater is not what is causing the odor. You are there and we are not. You need to get someone to take a hard look at the dishwasher and surrounding area and figure out what is doing this. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12th, 2011 08:27 pm |
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30th Post |
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ali_in_eburg Member
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Yeah, it looks like you're right. Darn! We'll put the anode rod back in and go from there. If/when we find out what's wrong/how to fix what's wrong/a reliable method for disguising the smell, I will let y'all know. In the meantime, many many thanks to all who thought about the problem/posted ideas. I REALLY appreciate it!!! Alix
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2011 01:23 pm |
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31st Post |
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Krueger Member
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That is a huge number regarding iron. EPA's MCL (maximum contaminant level) is .3ppm. Besides being a potential health hazard at that level, it also fuels iron bacteria (not coliform or e-coli) which cause that horrendous odor. I would recommend shocking the well with bleach and see if the odor doesn't go away for a few days. The bleach will oxidize the iron temporarily and also sterilize the iron bacteria. If this works, consider the peroxide injection or an iron filter, though the iron filter will not sterize the bacteria. I've treated a couple of hundred water wells with iron problems using hydrogen peroxide. 100% success ratio. EPA has several web pages regarding "shocking" your well. Here is one of them http://water.epa.gov/drink/info/well/whatdo.cfm
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2011 01:33 pm |
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32nd Post |
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Krueger Member
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Alix, you can also try pouring a cup of 3% hydrogen peroxide into the washing machine (or OxyClean, which breaks down to hydrogen peroxide and baking soda) and then pour the peroxide in during the rinse cycle. Also try pouring a cup into the dish washer. Also, a pH of 7 is neutral, anything over is alkaline and anything under is acidic.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28th, 2011 02:50 pm |
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33rd Post |
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tom2754 Member
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hello Randy, have smell from both hot water and cold water. much worse from hot water while in shower. have treated well 2 months ago with chlorine bleach and smell was good till now. I have a rheem fury 50 gallon water heater only 4 moths old. will the aluminium/zinc rod take care of the smell problem? also I have three plastic caps on top of the water heater, one cap is larger than the other two. I removed the plastic caps and the caps were just covering a metal surface of the tank. Any idea which location and how do I remove it in order to remove the old rod and install the new one? Thanks in advance for your assistance, and to all the post that adress these concerns. Tom
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28th, 2011 04:21 pm |
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34th Post |
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tom2754 Member
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Randy, removed the top outer ring of the top of the water heater, found the anod, cut out the metal on the top( where the large plastic cap was installed) now as a follow up I am using no softner so please provide me the recommended anod that you think will assist in my cold and hot water smell. also How do I determine a flex anod vs a solid, and how to determine a combo rod take it out and look before ordering? also if I drain out water in the tank by running hot water with the well pump off will that avoid me loosing water when I remove the anod for inspection. just want to insure that I order the correct anod, its a rheem fury 50 gallon water heater approx 4 months old.Thanks again Tom Last edited on Sun Aug 28th, 2011 04:43 pm by tom2754 |
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28th, 2011 06:37 pm |
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35th Post |
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elenano Member
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I DID recently have two people buy aluminum/zinc for non-softened water and they didn't work, but it's still true that most of the time, those solve the problem. That said, you'd want SKU11 if you've got 44 inches clearance or SKU12 if you have less than that but still about a foot of clearance. Yes, turn off the pump and drain a gallon from the tank. You probably had better unscrew the hot-water nipple to make sure there isn't an anode underneath it. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30th, 2011 02:11 am |
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36th Post |
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tom2754 Member
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Randy, my owners manual only shows the one anod? If i do have one under the hot water nipple, need to buy 2 units? same sku number? Thanks Tom
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30th, 2011 05:52 am |
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37th Post |
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elenano Member
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Only buy one anode, but remove both of the factory ones, if there ARE two. Generally, we say two are better than one, but not when you've got odor issues. Having two may make them worse. Randy Schuyler
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30th, 2011 11:38 pm |
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38th Post |
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tom2754 Member
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Thanks Randy I have placed my order this evening. Tom
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 11:14 pm |
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39th Post |
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ali_in_eburg Member
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PROBLEM SOLVED!!??!! (fingers crossed) I didn't want to write too soon, in case my "solutions" didn't hold, but it's been 3 months since my last post and almost 3 months since the last smelly load of dishes. We put the aluminum-zinc anode back into the tank and the shower water stopped smelling. Not sure about the washing machine, but I've been using hydrogen peroxide "bleach" with hot loads and there is no smell. Re the bane of my existence-the dishwasher-I spent a long time googling "wet dog smell" and found people with the same problem. Solution? Stop using Finish dishwasher detergent. There seems to be some sort of chemical reaction or something that causes the smell. Go figure! I'd used Finish because it was top-rated by Consumer Reports and I figured if anything would get rid of the smell... I cleaned the dishwasher out a couple of times by running it empty with the maximum sanitizing options and putting on the top rack 2 one-cup containers open-side up and filled with plain white vinegar. (I'd tried two kinds of commercial cleaners and they did not work.) Now I wash the dishes with Method "Smarty" dishwasher tablets and fill the rinse-aide dispenser with white vinegar. About once a month, I think I can smell a trace of the old odor, so I clean the dishwasher using the method above. I can't say why it works or if it will continue to work, but I'm hopeful. And I am grateful to you fine fellows for all your help!
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15th, 2011 11:16 pm |
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40th Post |
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ali_in_eburg Member
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two months, not three...
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