 | ||||
| ||||
| | ||||
| ||||
| Moderated by: Admin | Page:   1 2 |
|
|||||||||||||
| I’m in trouble, and need help | Rate Topic |
| Author | Post |
|---|
| Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 01:15 am |
|
21st Post |
|
Geno_3245 Member
|
 Above image is similar to your installation. It seems you can buy ordinary power vented tank-type gas water heater and replace what is shown in image. Cap off heat exchange pipes to furnace, and remove Lennox tank and replace with tank-type gas water heater. Gas line appears to be 3/4" and large enough for large BTU water heater. Other potential problems: Gas water heater not sitting 18" off floor level, TP outlet should be at downward angle.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 01:31 am |
|
22nd Post |
|
nomembrane Member
|
Geno, That is my WH. What you are saying is exactly what I need to do if I cannot get my current WH working (the issue is lack of parts, and no one out in my area wants to look into fixing it). So my questions is, how do I get heat in my house if I cap the lines going to and from the AHU? Thanks, James
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 02:10 am |
|
23rd Post |
|
nomembrane Member
|
Maybe I need to specify that my AHU is a hydronic furnace (at least thats what a plumber called it). So can I replace my existing WH with whatever I want (be it power direct vent, direct vent, tank, tankless), and hook the "in" from the AHU to the hot on the WH and then the "out" from the AHU to the cold on the WH? The AHU has a small inline water pump on the "out" line to circulate water from the AHU to the WH.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 02:13 am |
|
24th Post |
|
eleent Member 
|
Hello James: I'm sorry you took my post as sarcastic as that wasn't how it was written. Complexity seems to be the cause of your problem now, which is why so many plumbers won't touch it. In reading again through the string, I'm surprised that your Lennox dealer only offers to sell you a new unit and not help you to get the existing one up and running. Might it be worth a call to ask specifically if he can help you get the current unit going? Also, there is a forum at http://www.heatinghelp.com where lots of good technicians weigh in. About the "tankless as space heater" question, it is surprisingly complex. if you go here: http://www.aceee.org/conferences/2011/hwf/program you'll see a presentation by Armin Rudd and others about the hurdles he's been dealing with in attempting to combine space heating and tankless heaters. Yours, Larry Last edited on Fri Jan 20th, 2012 02:15 am by eleent |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2012 02:38 am |
|
25th Post |
|
Geno_3245 Member
|
I probably misunderstand. Is the water heater also heating the house? The sell sheet says: "Combines a high-efficiency furnace and hot water heater all in one system." So is there a separate high-efficiency furnace? If there is NOT a separate furnace, then ... you have to fix the old one, or replace the old one ... and we are back to needing a service manual and parts. Without a service manual, we have no way to test parts, or know what the correct test results should show. That gets back to my first post that offered the Lennox forum as a source for this manual, and possible help. Otherwise, have a plumbing contractor install a brand-name boiler and indirect water heater.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 02:21 pm |
|
26th Post |
|
Ej Member 
|
The blower must come on for a few seconds to clear out any lingering vapors. Your unit uses a hot surface igniter. This could be used with or without a separate flame sensor. The red light usually will indicate ignition trial then either remain on or go off depending on whether the burner stays lite or not. If you can give me the names of the tabs that are in use on the ignition module I can tell you were to start. Also look for a viewing port somewhere on the power burner assy. and let us know if you ever see the burner light off. Last edited on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 02:21 pm by Ej |
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 02:27 pm |
|
27th Post |
|
Ej Member
|
Also a readable closeup of the module and the pc board to the left would be helpful. Does the power to the module come from the pc board or the transformer above it? Also can you isolate the furnace and any circ pumps during testing?
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 02:47 pm |
|
28th Post |
|
Ej Member
|
Looking some more is this your module? Have you looked at the mounted led on the module to see what error code it flashes?
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 03:10 pm |
|
29th Post |
|
Ej Member
|
Rereading this thread again all we really know is the blower comes on and the water temp is cold at the heater and the kitchen faucet. And from this we can say the thermostat is working since it has started the ignition sequence by starting the blower. Now we need to know if the blower air switch is being approved. Also there must be a wiring schematic on the side of the heater. A close up of this would make things easier with understanding the ignition sequence. To be honest with you this appears to be a basic power burner setup keeping things simple. The unit has a stainless steel heat exchanger with a quick recovery rate.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 03:35 pm |
|
30th Post |
|
Ej Member
|
Ignition Module error codes TROUBLESHOOTING Ignition Control Module (ICM) LED Error Codes: (Flashes visible through viewport in access door) FLASHES INDICATED PROBLEM CONTROL REACTION 1 Pressure Switch Closed SC* 2 Pressure Switch Open SL 3 Failed Ignition SL3 4 Gas Valve Hardware Fault SL 5 Flame Sense Hardware Fault SC 6 False Flame SL** 8 Ignition Control Hardware Fault SL 9 Ignition Control Software Fault SL Rapid L1 Polarity Detection SC SL (Soft Lockout): Control Automatically resets after 60 minutes. SL3 (Soft Lockout/Hard Lockout): Control automatically resets after 60 minutes, with a maximum of 3 resets, followed by hard lockout requiring service. SC (Self Clearing): Control will function normally as soon as it no longer detects the previously indicated fault. * when pressure switch or blower relay opens ** when fl ame is no longer sensed. † Blower Isolation Relay is used on models 150,000 BTU/Hr and above. Note: If unit goes into a soft or hard lock-out the ignition control module can be reset by cycling power to the water heater Water Heater Operation This appliance does not have a pilot light. It is equipped with an electronic ignition that automatically lights the burner. There are three lights to indicate the various stages of operation; Green = Electrical power is on, Yellow = Thermostat is calling for heat, which signals the beginning of the ignition sequence (see figure 21), and Red = Ignition control is signaling the gas valve to open. A complete manual can be found at http://www.americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/Pol-April02.pdf Your unit is made by Polaris for Lennox.
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Mon Jan 23rd, 2012 09:24 am |
|
31st Post |
|
Geno_3245 Member
|
Polaris is not an indirect water heater. The spiral tube cycles hot burner gas through the water before the blower motor exhausts gas up vent. This maximizes heat transfer. The side connections on water heater that go to furnace are drawing hot water directly from the tank, just like a faucet draws hot water from tank. Hot water is cycled through the furnace using inline motor. Furnace does not appear to have back-up heat source, and no gas burner or gas line is shown.  http://www.americanwaterheater.com/products/pdf/lpg100.pdf Following manual show schematic page 31 http://www.americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/Pol-March2000.pdf
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 07:12 am |
|
32nd Post |
|
nomembrane Member
|
Ej sorry for not being on top of my forum / post. I'll read and reply in detail later today, now it is midnight and time for bed.
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 07:36 pm |
|
33rd Post |
|
nomembrane Member
|
Ej Here is a picture of the Ignition Control. It does get its power off of the Transformer not the Thermostat Board. Attachment: Ignition Control.jpg (Downloaded 22 times)
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 07:37 pm |
|
34th Post |
|
nomembrane Member
|
And here is the Thermostat Board just to the left of the Ignition Control. Attachment: Thermostat Board.jpg (Downloaded 22 times)
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 08:37 pm |
|
35th Post |
|
nomembrane Member
|
So I have good news and bad news (maybe bad news). Good news is I took it upon myself and tore the WH apart. Removed the Air Inlet Pipe from the Venturi Manifold, disconnected the gas line at the NPT Elbow, removed the Hot Surface Igniter and then unbolted the Combustion Blower. After removing the Combustion Blower pulled the Burner out of the Combustion Chamber. After inspecting the Burner I cleaned it in my sonic cleaner. The Burner was full of small debris (even small pieces of wood chips). What I never realized (and it makes perfect sense now) this and maybe all power vented WHs need an inline air filter. My setup does not have one, what is so disappointing about this information is the past times we had plumbers come out to work on our unit never informing me of this unit needing an air filter. Here is the kicker, the WH is working! However I am getting a faint smell of gas near the bottom of the WH. When I reassembled the unit I did change the Blower Gasket. Everything felt like it went back together correctly and everything looks good. But anytime the WH starts its burn cycle I can smell gas. As soon as the burn cycle is off no gas. Without getting on the roof and snaking both intake and exhaust, I imagine there is no restriction within ether of the two lines. Last weekend I was on the roof cleaning our wood burning fireplace flue and the WH was running a burn cycle. I put my hand above the exhaust, and there is plenty of air volume coming from the exhaust. I know for a fact that it is not gas coming from the gas line anywhere between the meter and the Inlet Flange that connects to the Gas Valve. I soaped the lines and even had my local power company come out and pressure test the line with 15 inches. The guy from the power company was not concerned with the amount of gas coming from the WH. I really don’t know if this is an acceptable amount of gas but when he stuck his sniffer against the WH where the gas line enters the WH he had a reading of up to 3%. It’s very hard to detect where the smell is originating from due to the Combustion Blower fan vents moving air all around.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 11:56 pm |
|
36th Post |
|
Ej Member
|
Glad to here it. Have someone to a combustion leak test for you also. Also make sure your burner is lighting off 100% and soap your fittings again with a commercial product.
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 11:58 pm |
|
37th Post |
|
Ej Member
|
Also you forgot to tell us how many led flashes on the module there was originally when the heater wasn't working. This might help others.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Jan 25th, 2012 12:24 am |
|
38th Post |
|
nomembrane Member
|
Ej, Do you know how I check to make sure the burner is 100% off (minus watching my meter outside)? The Gas Valve and Venturi Manifold are completely enclosed units (you cannot see a flame because the gas gets burnt above the Combustion Blower within the Burner). Is a combustion leak test something I can do? I did two soap tests with a commercial grade soap, not with dish soap on all the gas pipe fittings (not a single bubble). Also if you look at my original post you will read that the Diagnostic LED only came on when the Burner cycle was off. The LED did NOT flash but it would stay on solid till the burner cycle came on.
|
|||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||
| Posted: Wed Jan 25th, 2012 11:00 pm |
|
39th Post |
|
Ej Member
|
You should be able to check for any combustion fumes to see if the burner shuts down. I was thinking it had more of a screen tube shape burner which I see now it doesn't. Combustion tests are best performed with an analyzer. Maybe check with your gas company.
|
||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
| Current time is 03:45 am | Page: 1 2 |
| thetankatwaterheaterrescue.com > Forums > The Tank > I’m in trouble, and need help | Top |
