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electmcc
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Posted: Mon Jul 10th, 2006 06:39 pm |
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I have been cleaning and maintaining hot water heaters and more importantly hot water boilers for over forty years. I completely take apart the waterside of the boiler or hot water heater and then wash out all sediment, build up. Some of this sediment resembles the discolored blow down of a hot water heater. It smells and it is black in color. This is DEAD bacteria and anything that was alive in the water before it came into the heated pressure vessel.
The anode, zinc, alum, or mag does not cause the smell.
The HEAT kills the bacteria and living matter and then falls to the bottom. The smell comes from the decaying dead matter in the water.
There is no sulfur in magnesuim, aluminum or zinc. The sulfur is the result of anerobic decay which produces hydrogen sulfide which then inturn produces sulfur, therefore the smell.
Sincerly, Mike....
Another very small item that the electro-chemical reaction of the water in the hot water heater causes the ANODE to corrode instead of the tank itself. This I wholehartedly agree with. But constant HEAT applied to the hot water heater also destroys the anode. Heat destroys any metal or at least contributes to it's breakdown.
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eleent
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 07:12 am |
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Hello: Here is a technical bulletin from AO Smith about smelly water. See what you think. http://www.hotwater.com/bulletin/bulletin22.pdf
The info I've found on chemical reactions and heat basically says the speed of a reaction is roughly doubled for every increase of 20 degrees. I think we're in agreement  .
Yours, Larry
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electmcc
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 10:28 am |
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They don't get it. It's the dead matter of the once living organisms ALREADY in fresh water.
The hot water boilers that I worked on in the last thirty years did not have "broken pipes" feeding water into them and there weren't any broken pipes in the area for the thiry years I repeatedly did these washouts jobs. Theory BUSTED! All these boilers had was regular feed systems that allowed FRESH water in as needed. When washed out they all had black decaying matter laying on the bottom and on all internal surfaces. This could be removed by a normal garden hose spraying application, thus a washout. If you went 30 years without a washout in a boiler you could have anywhere from 6 to 12 inches of black, brown mud, most for which was dead decaying organic matter. Thus the smell of rotten eggs as soon as the boiler was open to the air.
A simple way to find out if the mud is organic or corroded metal is to let it dry out in a cheese cloth and then use a simple house magnet. The iron/steel will stick to the magnet. The rest is left over from the water and what was originally in it, when it was fed into the system. Armchair quarterbacks! You have to work in the trenches to know what is going on in the trenches. If u prefer the smell of chlorine to rotten eggs be my guest. I know, I have lost a few good shirts to killer chlorine. Mike
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eleent
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 06:11 pm |
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Hello Mike: I've only been playing with water heaters specifically for twenty years although I do have just over thirty five years in plumbing. We've seen the same things but arrived at different interpretations. I agree about the "broken pipe" scenerio. That just isn't so. Ontario Hydro, in Canada used to lease tanks to clients, so they learned how to maintain them. I learned a lot of what I know from their lead scientist/ corrosion engineer. Their description of odor is similar to AO Smith's as are the other major manufacturers... Hydrogen peroxide works nicely to control odor as well as chlorine. I'd always thought it was by oxygenating the water and killing off the anerobic bacteria. In any event, the odor goes away and it's easy on shirts  . Thanks for the input and the conversation!
Yours, Larry
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electmcc
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 06:51 pm |
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Larry.........
Never argued what to do about the "stinky water". My point was what they thought the problem was. People blame the smell on the anodes. Therefore the use of aluminum vs mag. The smell is from the decaying dead matter.
Do you have needs for anodes? I sell different sizes for boilers. I have started making them for industrial and household hot water heaters (replacement market). If interested leave your address and I'll send u some info. Mike
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elenano
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 10:01 pm |
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Mike,
On the other other hand, the anodes ARE part of the problem, since the bacteria react with them. Aluminum is nearly as bad as magnesium. Plumbers have been known to just remove the anode and that does solve that problem -- while creating another. No more odor and soon, no more tank.
The aluminum/zinc anodes resolve the problem most of the time. We've had one or two cases with unusually bad well water and/or softeners where people still had odor problems.
Randy Schuyler
Last edited on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 10:02 pm by elenano
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electmcc
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 11:20 pm |
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My I suggest u check out hydrogen sulfide on the web.
I am looking at Chemical analysis Report for Super Mag. Arepot that is generated when magnesium is made. I use magnesium anodes. The report states. Zn, Fe, Mn. Cu, Si, Al, Ni....... No sulfur in the anode! In order to get sulfur you have to have some. The steel tank has no sulfur in it. So all that is left is the water. Again the water has living organizms which when heated die. Anerobic bacteria aids this process turning the decaying matter into hydroen sulfide which is a gas and smells like rotten eggs therefore the sulfur smell. It is the heat and the water not the anode that causes the smelly problem.
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elenano
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Posted: Wed Jul 12th, 2006 03:53 am |
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Clearly we don't agree on this, but this is a place where that is OK. Still, just for fun, I might ask if you have ever removed an anode in a smelly water situation. Other people have written to us and said they did this and it always made the smell go away. If the anode has no bearing on the problem, by rights shouldn't there still be an odor problem, even in its absence? For that matter, why does an aluminum/zinc anode help?
Randy Schuyler
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electmcc
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Posted: Wed Jul 12th, 2006 10:15 am |
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No.. I have never removed an anode from a hot water tank or a boiler because of a stinky, smelly situation.
However, I have encountered hot water heating boilers with no treatment, chemical or anodes. When you open the water side of these hot water heating boilers there is an immediate stench. Rotten egg smell.
Getting down to the bottom where the mud is in the mud legs or just opening a hand hole, man hole cover there is always the smell of smelly water. The best way to describe it is like digging clams that live in the rich, dark, black mud that also smells like rotten eggs. These boilers had NOTHING in them accept the fresh water that was fed into them. Then they are fired up for heat during the heating season. After the heating season during the Summer I would come along and under contract wash them out therefore the experience. Same boilers every year for nearly 20 years.
So what do we have here, no ANODES to blame, no CHEMICALS to blame just fresh water to blame and the heat factor again and invisible, teeny- tiny creatures who happen to be in the wrong water at the wrong time when they were fed into these hot water boilers. Yes, we disagree. The original reason why I started this madness.
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eleent
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Posted: Thu Jul 13th, 2006 04:56 am |
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Hello Mike: Have you seen it happen that a water heater puts out good, non-smelly water and then after a period of non-use, the rotten-egg odor starts? I've found it in churches that are used mainly on weekends, homes for sale that have been vacant for months, vacation cottages and even water heaters in an unused wing of an occupied house. My understanding is that hydrogen gas, generated at the tank walls by the action of the anode, essentially feeds anerobic bacteria. Unless there is regular use of the water, which flushes the bacteria from the tank, a bacterial population explosion will occur helping to create the odor. These "sulphate reducing bacteria" are very common around the world and live in many environments. Experience is that heating a water heater up to 160 degrees only temporarily slows them down. It's no surprise that you find such a build-up in the dead legs of boilers. Like electric water heaters there is a place that is essentially unheated that's good for bacteria.
My point in going on as I have is not to argue, but to share another perspective. I'd appreciate it if you took time to stop by "The Tank" periodically and continue to share what you've learned. It's useful .
Yours, Larry
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tazr
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 09:30 pm |
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We have the same problem w/yucky smell and black water. WE have installed two new pumps in well. Have had water tested twice & told all is fine. I don't drink it. Am scared to take bath in it for fear it is unhealthy? Don't know Who to contact in Providence Forge, VA to get a for REAL water test or find out if it is the water heater? Don't know who to trust about this? But the water is unbearable.
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eleent
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 10:36 pm |
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Hello: Have a look here: http://www.rhomarwater.com/ Perhaps they can do you some good. They come highly recommended 
Yours, Larry
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