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june01
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 23rd, 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 23rd, 2006 06:41 pm |
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Our gas heater is about 6 yrs. old. Yesterday it decided not to keep the burner on long enough to heat the water. I turned the therm. down to vacation and left it like that overnight because the fan would not turn off by its self. This morning got up early to turn the temp up so that my children could shower. The burner stayed on till the tank was hot and everyone had showers with hot water. (happy about that). Now, when the new water that replaced the water from showering asked to be heated, the burner would kick on for a few seconds then turn off. Again, it would attempt to light the burner and work for a few seconds. It will continue to do this until I turn down the therm. The pilot light is on and has no problem. We replaced the thermocouple last fall. It is, I think, working properly since I haven't had to relight it at all.
I have been on your website since 7a til after 1p. Read every article you have. I haven't found any that are more closely related to my problem. I have learned a lot though, especially about blowing up, frying yourself and rockets launching through your house. Hoping you can give me a list of things to look for that causes this problem. Also, I couldn't find any articles on whether or not the accumulation of sediments from hard water in the bottom of the tank could be the culprit. My husband is going to flush it tonight to see if that helps. We don't have a meter to test stuff. Hoping we don't need to. Also, I don't see any leaks anywhere. Which article tells exactly the right way to flush? I don't want to burn up any elements.
thanks,
June
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june01
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Posted: Tue Oct 24th, 2006 12:58 am |
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Just finished flushing the tank. That all went fine. Turned on the electric and gas and fired it up. The burner lit and we closed up the area. The burner stayed lit for about 10-15 minutes and went out. The system tried to ignite the burner and it lit for about 5-10 seconds and went out. It kept on doing this, so we turned the thermostat down to vacation level so that it would stop trying and the fan could shut off. Hoping we can rule out sediment problem, if that was a consideration.
Question still remains....no what do we look for?
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Ej
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| Joined: | Thu Aug 24th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 24th, 2006 03:16 am |
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My best guess without knowing the model number is there is a problem with the control valve since it wants to cycle on/off continuesly. Since you state you have a thermocoupler then it is not a flame sense problem and your pilot stays on with no problems. But then again you say you have a fan and whether it be a blower or an exhaust fan most of these have electronic ignition which would bring us back to a flame sense problem. Model please
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june01
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Posted: Tue Oct 24th, 2006 11:32 am |
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It's a Powerflex. Made by American Water Heater Company.
Model number: PVG62 50T63 3PH
50 Gal. Made in 1998 and installed in 2000
Got up early to turn up the temp. again. It stayed on for the length of time it needed to heat the water. Now that a couple showers have been taken, it is acting goofy again. The fan is at the top of the unit and comes on when the tank is heating.
Let me know what ya think and if there is any more info. you might need. Would like to try and fix this problem ourselves before calling someone to come out here.
thanks
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Ej
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Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2006 03:31 am |
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Wow you picked a tough waterheater to cut your teeth on. Your going to need a multimeter and the understanding on how to use one to troubleshoot further. I will give you a few clues. First check for any obstuction in the vent line. This unit has a pressure switch and a gas pressure switch to prove conditions. Most likely your problem resides with one of these. Your gas company should be willing to come out at no charge to take a pressure reading at the control valve.
Here is a link to read up on.
http://www.americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/powervent.pdf
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eleent
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Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2006 06:29 am |
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Hello Ej: Thanks for spending time here. You're making it a better place 
Yours, Larry
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june01
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Posted: Wed Oct 25th, 2006 01:07 pm |
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Well, EJ.....my hat off to you. You hit the nail on the head. The problem was indeed the vent line. I used a tool that I wonder if heating/air conditioning people own.. a paperclip! I didn't see any lint on the clip when I cleaned the little metal tube that the clear plastic tube hooks onto, but it worked. And, we had hot water this morning, too!
Glad that I found your Tanks website and got a chance to get advice before having the heater serviced. I will highly recommend this site to people I know.
I'm curious though. How much do you think I saved by not having someone come out and work on this? And, would they have known from the beginning what to look for? I think this weekend we will open up the fan and clean the blades and motor area.
Thanks for all your help and I agree with Larry's reply..you are an asset to this site
June
p.s. I hope that when you stated that I have a tough water heater to work on, that you meant we bought a good one.
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Ej
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Posted: Thu Oct 26th, 2006 04:19 am |
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Thanks for the cudos. Most likely you would have needed a technition to trouble shoot the problem. In my neck of the woods most plumbers will not service electronic heaters. In my area the cost would of been $100.00 to repair it.
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Kevin
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Posted: Mon Mar 24th, 2008 04:24 am |
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June01 & EJ - Unbelievable!!!! I have farted around for days now, replacing the vacume lines and cleaning the burners on my power-vent water heater. I have looked through multiple web sites and online manuals looking for this 'gas not staying on very long' problem. I also don't have meters and tools and am certainly no plumber. When I finally saw June01's problem, it was like I wrote it myself. And, the craziest part is, the paper clip worked for me too! It was a little tight working through the little access door and once my arm was in I couldn't see, so had to do by feel. But, I eventually got the clip in the gas vent orafice and worked it around a little. The old water heater, about 10 years old, is working perfectly again.
Knowing the going rate for plumbers around her, I'm sure you just saved me $75 to $100 at least - and that's if they didn't start replacing parts!
THANK YOU BOTH! I was ready to call the plumber in the morning. My family thanks you too!
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pj
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Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2008 01:53 pm |
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I have been running into same problem since early am today. We have AO Smith Promax PCV 50 100. The pilot will stay on by itself when thermostat is on pilot ignition, but when I turn the thermostat to any higher setting A, B, C, the boiler will come on for a few minutes and then shuts down taking the pilto light out along with it. Was wondering if paper clip would work for my situation. Since this is me first time, Would appreciate if anyone could provide more details on the steps.Thanks in annticipation.
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Ej
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Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 12:47 am |
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Electronic ignition, either glow coil or spark, comes on at temperature demand. Then the pilot will go out once the temperature has been satisfied. As stated above, with your model the common error seems to be either a flame sense problem or the vacuum switch prover protecting the exhaust venting. First check for blockage in the vent pipe. This could come in a form of a bird nest, water, or other blockage of some sort. Next check the clear vacuum tube on top of the heater. This is clear 1/4 inch tubing coming from the blower to the vacuum switch. As stated above push a paper clip thru the barb portion of the switch and blower where the hose attaches. Also make sure the hose is not loose at where it attaches. Also check any fan intake screen on the blower. Clean if needed.
Second would be a flame sense problem. This is much more difficult to check without the proper meters. A simpler but not always accurate method would be to check if your control valve is flashing a sequence code. If your model is of this kind then check the number of flashes against the error code sticker on your water heater and then report back your findings.
Regards
Ej
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pj
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Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 04:35 pm |
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| I checked and there aren't any clear pipes coming out of the heater. There are some holes on the top which could possibly be venting/diluting intake air. The bottom intake screen is clear of any blockage and so is the vent pipe. It seems like some kind of a cut off is in play becauce the pilot stays on as long as the thermostat is set to "pilot lighting". Once the thermostat is set to a higher temperature setting, the burner lights up and then within a minute or so, the burner shuts off and so does the pilot.
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Ej
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Posted: Sun Apr 13th, 2008 07:21 pm |
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My fault. I thought we were talking about the power vent model. Your model has a flame switch soldered into the thermocouple. This switch protects a overheat condition in the burner area. Your condition is a common one and several things need to be checked to remedy your problem. Here is what I recommend starting with the simplest.
1. Remove the plastic screen at the very bottom and rinse it off under a faucet. Dry good. Even if your screen looks to be clean a very small amount of dirt, dryer lint, cat hair, etc. can cause an overheat condition.
2. Once the screen is removed take your wife's feather duster and shove it into the holes that the screen covers. Try to clean the bottom of the flame arrestor by moving the duster back and forth. A air compressor works fine too. Now put your screen back and give your heater another try.
What is happening is once you turn your thermostat to heat the burner area is over heating and the flame switch open turning pilot and burner off. Of course all of the above assumes you have no blockage in your venting system. If this doesn't fix your problem then there are two other things you can do which are a bit more difficult.
Now don't forget to put your wife's feather duster back
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